podcast image

Listen Now

Sales Enablement in Four Steps

March 17, 202238:42

“Don’t sell them. Help them buy.” This week, Sheevaun Thatcher, the VP of Global Digital Learning and Development at RingCentral, chats with us about all things sales enablement. Tune in as we explore Sheevaun’s four steps to sales enablement, the role of empathy and forgiveness in virtual selling, and how you can best support your sales leaders through this ever-changing game we call sales.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

AW:

Hi, everyone. It’s April Williams, the Founder and President of SalesAmp and your host of From Hello to Yes. When I say sales enablement, what comes to mind? And if I were to ask you to define it, would you be able to? Although this term may be new to you, it’s been around for a long time and today’s guest may be among the first originators. Sheevaun Thatcher leads the digital learning and enablement team at RingCentral, and is a founding member of the Sales Enablement Society. In today’s episode Sheevaun and I go through her four pillars of sales enablement, and we discuss how today’s salesperson must be both, get ready, empathetic and forgiving. I didn’t see those two coming. She said, these are must to be successful in a virtual selling world and how vital it is to be a learn it all versus a know it all. Besides all that great insight, Sheevaun is so real, so smart and so much fun. Here’s my conversation with Sheevaun. Sheevaun, thank you so much for joining us today.

ST:

My pleasure.

AW:

One of the things we focus on From Hello to Yes, is the importance of learning and figuring out this ever changing world of marketing and sales together. We believe none of us is as smart as all of us and to that end, we also want to be a place where the up and coming marketers and salespeople will come to learn about what’s happening in the industry. I want to ask you, as you sit in a place today of being a leader in sales enablement, can you think back to when your career started and what would the Sheevaun of today say to that 20 something Sheevaun?

ST:

Yeah. That’s when the earth was cooling, so I got to think way back. I mean, I think there’s a few things I would say. Number one, be confident in your knowledge, right? Even though you may not know everything, you likely know more than others around this particular topic, and don’t be afraid to say no, or not yet. I think as the folks that typically get into enablement, we have a tendency to be in service and as such we also have a tendency to say yes to everything. What happens is you become the fixer of broken things and when you’re the fixer of broken things, you can’t get real programs working and it just becomes really difficult. So, what I would say to that 20 year old is don’t be afraid to stand your ground, that you are the expert in your knowledge and what you know, and how you do it. And as you started this podcast, we’re all teachers and we’re all students and so it’s okay not to know. That’s the other thing. It’s just, it’s not okay not to find out, but it’s okay not to know.

AW:

Yeah. I love that answer. We often in enablement are service people and we do end up being asked to fix everything so really excellent point. For those that aren’t living and breathing sales enablement, what would be your definition of sales enablement today?

ST:

Yeah, so I mean, I can give you an analogy, right? The analogy is, imagine a bowling alley, you give every single seller, a ball, some of them pitch it there at high speed, angled everything else and make strikes every time and some just get into the gutter right away. And so from an enablement perspective, our role is to say, who’s going to throw the gutter balls, put the bumper up and make sure that no matter they may not get a strike every time, but they’re going to take down at least one pin and be able to move forward. From an analogy, that’s kind of what enablement is.

From a charter perspective, there’s four parts of it to me. The first part is all the go-to-market. Everything to understand, why a company exists, why do their customers buy them? What is our MO or Modus Operandi, why are we here? And so ensuring even beyond sales, that everybody is saying the same thing, right?

Second part of it is all of our asset, all of our marketing material, all of our sales material, everything that we have is that all on the same message? Is there one version of it, right? Because I know when I started at RingCentral, there were different corporate decks and they were all over the place and people were making their own and right, so that was one of the first things I did was go, no. We need to focus and make sure that we’re all on the same page.

Third part of it is making sure that from a seller perspective and are the folks that we support, can they get what they need when they need it during the journey. Whether that is the sales journey or the customer journey depends on who you are and what your role is in persona within the company but regardless, do you have the ability to quickly pull the info that you need, or does it get pushed to you at the right time of that journey?

And then the last piece of it is the tribal knowledge piece, right? Seth Godon I think, is the one who coined that phrase and it’s, what’s working and what’s not? And if it’s not working, stop doing it and if it is working, how do you make sure that you get that feedback in fast enough, so that you can then incorporate it into everything you’re doing and you turn the dial and you go more, right? And you go more and it’s just, it’s those, those are the pieces from an enablement perspective. That’s what I consider to be my charter and from a sales enablement perspective that’s the charter of sales enablement.

AW:

It’s so good and I think about even some of the folks who are on the call, who could be from small to medium size businesses, maybe not large corporations, give us a little plug for your passion for sales enablement. Why is it so important today?

ST:

I think part of it has to do with my background, right? I didn’t have the career ladder. I had the career jungle gym, so I was all over the place. Well that didn’t work. Let me try this but what I did learn very quickly is that the game of sales, right. This, how do you put everything together? How do you make sure you’re doing the right things? How do you make sure that you are not focusing everything on how to sell, as opposed to, how do you help your customer buy, right? So it’s changing that dynamic. That is something that I learned many years ago and when you get new sellers and even experienced sellers to understand what that can look like and the impact that can have, you look different, you sound different, you are in all the Charlie Brown TV shows, right? The adults also sound the same, wa wa wa wa wa. Right? And so how do you change that? How do you make that change?

My passion is around that and my passion is around instilling some of that gravitas that’s necessary to run enablement like a business because most people don’t, right? They run it like, we’re doing adult learning and we need to think about adult learning and all their KPIs around adult learning and it’s like, no, no, you’re missing it totally, right? What it is we need to be able to run it like a business. We’ve got investors, we’ve got supply chains and we’ve got customers and when you think about it that way, and you do your programs that way, then you have a common language to speak so that your customers, your stakeholders and your investors all understand what you do.

They don’t care about all of the adult learning nomenclature and the models. They don’t care about that. What they care about is, are you using our money wisely and performances going up? Are you getting the right material in front of our sellers so that you, supply chain, aren’t trying to tell sellers how to sell instead, you’re giving them all of the curiosity questions if you will, those open ended questions to actually begin the conversation with the customer. So the customers front and center and so don’t try to sell them, try to help them buy.

And then lastly, from a customer perspective, my customers are actually the sales managers and up. My customers are not the sellers. They are the end user. The customer is actually the sales leaders. Because without that relationship and without them understanding that they need to execute on the programs that are created in tandem with them, right? This isn’t a, “Hey. We created this new thing, go do it.” It is a lot of conversation around what’s necessary but when you have that common language to say, for example with our CRO, he cares about two things. His performance going up, his attrition going down. Those are the conversations I have with him. I don’t talk about Bloom’s taxonomy and I don’t talk about Maslow’s laws and I don’t talk about any of that stuff because he doesn’t care. What he cares about is, is he getting the results he needs? And so running it like a business gives you not only the nomenclature to talk, but it also gives you that gravitas to stand in a room with senior leaders and talk about what you do in terms of business.

AW:

Yeah. I even love the simplicity of know your audience is what you’re talking about. That helps, right? And what’s important, I loved you said, “Don’t sell them, help them buy.”

ST:

Right.

AW:

Great analogy too. I Recently read a Gartner article that says 80% of B2B sales interactions between suppliers and buyers will occur in digital channels by 2025. So 80% of our sales are going to happen through digital channels by 2025. A Forbes article that you were listed, you were quoted in called, “Sales Enablement in a Socially Distant World: What Now”? Started with a quote from Susan Savona, VP of sales at Monster saying, “Every aspect of business has been impacted. The way sellers sell has changed so enablement means something different now. We must emphasize how to build customer relationships without meeting in person.” And you go on to say, “Our teams needed updated etiquette that translates for virtual selling. We’ve utilized a lot of coaching. Empathy is vital and forgiveness is essential.” I loved that. Talk to me about empathy and forgiveness in the training in the virtual selling world.

ST:

So Empathy is really important. I mean I hear sometimes people say, “Hey. Once you can fake empathy, you got it made.” You can’t fake empathy.

AW:

No.

ST:

Right. Empathy is not sympathy. Empathy is saying if I was in your shoes, here is what I would be worried about. Is that what you’re worried about? Then let me kind of give you some ideas of how I can help you. That’s empathy. It’s very different than sympathy, which is, I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Nobody wants sympathy. They want to know how to fix it, but they want to know that you actually understand what their issues are, and that you can feel them.

The pandemic has been horrible, right? COVID has been awful. What it did do for RingCentral though, is every single seller in this company now has a full understanding of what it’s like to use all of our tools, every single one, because we’re using them, right? So, that really jacked up the empathy part. What was interesting is when this first started, my team was used to looking outward at the sellers. We actually turned inward to the company because we were used to selling remotely. We were used to working on cameras, looking at video like I’m doing right now, right? I’m looking you in the eye and we were used to doing that.

Nobody else was. Legal wasn’t used to doing it, HR. Folks that always went into an office, they just didn’t have that skill set. We found that our first two or three months were not only changing our programs, that they were all remote which we did very quickly, but also to be able to teach people internally at RingCentral the etiquette around what it is that you do when you’re having and trying to connect with people in this two dimensional environment, right? It’s hard.

And then the last part of that, the forgiveness I realized that really, really early on with this, because we all have kids running around. I’ve got a puppy, a four month old puppy that’s in a crate, less than 6 feet from me. Yeah, you too. I am just crossing my fingers that he stays quiet and calm in his crate until this call is over, right? But he might not. He might start whining. He might start carrying on. Then I have to get up and I have to go deal with it, right? Or my son was trying to get something off my printer. He’s six foot four and he goes by behind me going right as low as he can go, he’s not that low. He can’t get that low, so it’s having the forgiveness to smile to really be the human that you are and understand that these kinds of things happen.

The other thing that was really big for me, is that all this stuff that’s going on behind me, I don’t have a virtual background. I know a lot of people loved it. It was fun. Let’s try all these new things but for me it was, this is who I am. This is who I am and so I don’t feel like I’m trying to hide anything. I’m being exactly who I am so that also goes in with the empathy and the alignment and being human. Forgiving folks for having challenges in the background when things are going on, right? I mean, think about that. Think about that video we saw that British Telecaster, right? And he was doing this kind of thing and his kid came in… Remember that? Everybody was horrified. It’s like, now that happens all the time.

AW:

Yes.

ST:

It’s okay. Don’t worry about it.

AW:

And it’s if we allow it to be, Sheevaun I think it helps us get to know each other a lot faster.

ST:

Yeah.

AW:

I’ve let you into my home and you’ve just let me into your home.

ST:

Yeah.

AW:

That’s the beauty. I think, as we move into this digital space, I know I was just listening to a session at Inbound, from HubSpot and they were talking about the industry that’s probably most impacted with their sales teams today is manufacturing. They were used to going out and the speaker said something great. The only person who misses sales meetings are sales people and everyone else is really appreciating this but what type of salesperson do you think is needed today to navigate and master this fully digital space?

ST:

Well, it’s really an interesting, because we spent a lot of time over the years trying to figure out how to change all of our sales models to make it much more like a challenger model, right? Go out there, talk to your customer, challenge them, do all of that. Relationship building never closes deals. Guess what’s happened, right? Beck Holland, I love the name of her company, right? Flip the Script. This is exactly what’s happened, is that the script has been flipped and those that are able to build the relationships and actually have that piece of humanity that’s built into it, and recognize number one, people make mistakes, people don’t understand. It’s okay not to know, right?

All of these things I’ve been talking about that it’s those people that really put that humanity as part of this, that they’re really trying to help the customer and we may not be the right answer but it’s getting to that and doing that through a very open, honest, right available type of person, right? Part of that is the etiquette of using the tools. Like Julie Hansen just came out with a book was called, Look Me in the Eye. It’s this yellow one that she just came out with. It’s all about how to do what I’m talking about. It’s all about doing this. It’s all about being able to understand, who do you look at? Who do you not? I mean, I love one of her comments was, The one person you don’t look at. Who is that? It’s you, right? Because, and that’s what I mean, I’m my, image is up here. It’s like, don’t look at that.

AW:

Mine’s over here.

ST:

Right. Exactly. It’s like, don’t pay any attention and so there’s all of that and it’s being willing to change. It’s being willing to adapt. It’s being willing to really ask the questions that are necessary and not try to jam things down people’s throats, right? We’re not here anymore to put a square peg in a round hole. What we’re trying to find out is what particular piece is going to fit there and how can we help the customer sort through all this stuff to figure out what that piece is. That’s what our job is. And it’s people that are willing to do that and spend the time to do that and get out there and now when I say out there figuratively in some cases, but being able to have those conversations, those are the folks that are going to succeed.

Speaker 3:

Are you done with leads, getting lost in the funnel? So are we, but there’s so often a gap between attracting leads and closing deals, especially if you’re have a long sales cycle. So we found the solution, combine marketing and sales into one department. Our content development, digital strategists, and prospecting experts working as an integrated extension of your team. So let’s work together to actually close the gap between Hello and Yes, to position your sales team, to focus on what they do best, closing more deals. Ready to learn more, go to salesamp.com to start this conversation.

AW:

So talk to me about, you were in a sales enablement team when this hit and here you are, we’re still very much in it. The world has changed. I had a client say traditional sales has paused at best or is dead completely at worst. How has your team been? How have they adapted? Who’s adapting better than others? Like, what are you seeing in this ever changing world of sales enablement?

ST:

From the enablement side, my team pretty much rolled with the punches on this one. We’ve been remote and I mean, nobody was in California, that’s where I am. Nobody in my team worked in California. Everybody was remote from me so we were used to doing that. We’ve got folks that most of their background comes from sales so they understand what some of the issues are on the sales side. And so I make it really clear with my team, for example off the bat that if I ever hear one of you say sales people are lazy. I’m going to be up in your face and it’s not going to be pretty, right? Because sales people are not lazy. Sales people have so much stuff on their plate that you have to help them understand where the learning and the enablement fits in all of that, right?

And it’s not that, “Hey. You’ve got to do eight hours in the month of October otherwise you’re in trouble.” It is based on your persona, what do you need? Right. Do you need, are you a new seller? Which means we need to be much more involved and much more hands on, or are you a very experienced seller where we can say, “Hey. Look when you’re looking for this here’s new stuff that’s come out, go find it over here.” Right?

It’s having that knowledge, right? There’s, I know with a lot of training organizations, it’s all about, we need to do certifications and we need to do, right? My answer to that is we have very, very few certifications because if somebody is performing and doing what you need, get out of their way. So, that really fit in well to what is going on in the world and from our enablement perspective. Now, as I said, most of our time initially was trying to teach people how to do what we’re doing right now. And it was how to relax and just be yourself and get things done.

I mean, its, I think from the seller’s perspective, half of the things, maybe not half the things, a quarter of the things that they did that they used to count on to get people’s attention or to push a deal forward or, it’s just not possible anymore, which is why that 80% of digital. I think we were moving there anyway.

AW:

Agreed.

ST:

I just think the pandemic has pushed it a lot faster. I think we probably would’ve been there by 2024, 2025, something like that, but now we’re there now, right? Because this is the option you have, right? When the world opens back up again, I think it’s going to be kind of random when it opens and closes and opens. I think this is just a new cycle that we’re in. It’s having the comfort of being able to do this, that is going to show who’s successful and who is not.

I think what you’ll end up with is you will have teams of sellers that will be working together. You’ll have the legacy seller that’s got a lot of experience who is teaching the selling techniques themselves, and then you’ve got the newer sellers or the ones that are more comfortable with technology doing the actual face to face work and I think you’re going to end up with teams along that line. So instead of just an individual going for it, you’ve got a team of people that are addressing any one of the customers.

AW:

I think that’s great because I think there is, it’s going to be fascinating, Sheevaun when we go back to whatever normal, I don’t think we’re ever going back to.

ST:

Yeah, there is no back to normal. There is forward to whatever we end up on.

AW:

Forward to whatever we go where you could actually go out and I just saw Joe Lazauskas of Contently, who is a guest on the podcast at his first trade show that he’s been in a year and a half speaking and how thrilled he was to be there. But it will be fascinating to see all of the clients we’re speaking, to many of them we used to fly to.

ST:

Yeah.

AW:

And we’ll probably do this.

ST:

Probably.

AW:

We probably, you know, and maybe we’ll fly some, but it’s going to be fascinating to see how many of our behaviors have changed completely and how many to your point, I love the idea of the team. That some will be out, feet on the street and out, and others will be maybe behind the scenes and doing this. But it’s amazing how many people have gotten more comfortable with a medium that many of us in agency life have used for a while, but it definitely will be interesting. Sales is what we see with our clients, the ones who’ve been struggling the most, not your digital team or your enablement team, but the true people that used to be on planes and constantly traveling and out wining and dining are struggling.

ST:

Yeah. I think from a sales management perspective, they need to get more involved. I think because the sales managers aren’t being invited out to sales calls, they pull back in and most of the work they were doing was internal work and most of that was what have you done for me lately? And so it is getting them to be much more comfortable as managers to say, “Take me on the call. Let’s do a joint call, right? Let me be part of that. Let me hear what you’re doing, right?” If you’re a new seller, especially if you’re a new seller, get the managers involved, right? There have been some studies done by, CommercialTribe has done some studies where the numbers are absolutely stunning to me. What they’re seeing about one of the numbers that just caught me totally by surprise was that based on the survey that they did, the average sales manager puts in 40 hours a year, only, with new hires. That’s one week.

Right? Exactly. It’s like, wow. What are they doing exactly? Right. Well, they’re spending things doing, they’re doing things that are more comfortable with them, right? Speaking with their top performers or working with their right. And so it’s, it’s understanding some of these analytics and to say, okay, we need to make a change. We need to get our managers in front of the camera, not sitting behind going, “Okay. Let me look at my spreadsheet and let’s…” No, it’s get in front of the camera with the customers and understand what your sellers are doing and help them. Right. Exactly.

AW:

What you’re saying too, which is great. Yeah. I think that’s it’s going to be, it’s a fascinating time. I’m actually excited by it. And I think it’s people like yourselves who are cutting the way and pioneering and were already down the path and now are running on ahead. It’s exciting to watch. One of the things I’d love you to talk about is the sales enablement society. I know you play a big part. That was new to me. I didn’t know there was a Sales Enablement Society, so I was thrilled to find you. Talk to us a little bit. What is it? Who should belong? What’s the purpose?

ST:

So, I will say I’ve been doing enablement for upwards of 30 years, right? That’s just, now it’s got a title. But back, Forrester was one of the very first. The analyst, Forrester were one of the very first to recognize, hey, there’s something here, right? There’s something here. There’s this new role. We don’t know what to call it but there’s this new role. That was about eight years ago I guess, something like that.

Scott Santucci was the head analyst and they came up with this sales enablement as a word. I mean, I think when I was first in this role as this is what I was doing, totally. I called myself the VP of Global Success Metrics because we didn’t have any other name for it and I had no network. There was nowhere for me to turn to say, how do I do this? Right. Even my CRO when I said, how do I do this? She’s like, “Just make it up as you go.” I’m like, okay. So there wasn’t anything there.

So Scott moved, he was in DC and in 2016, I believe he had left Forester and he thought I don’t want to let this go. So let me create this small community within the DC area, around enablement and see whether or not there’s any interest. Well, they got a lot of interest. This was in April, I believe 2016. In September 2016 he and a gentleman by the name of Jim Ninavaggi who was running enablement for Brainshark at the time, they came out to the bay area and they said you know, we’ve got some people that we’ve met through Forrester and Brainshark. Let’s get them together in San Jose at the Marriott, there were 16 of us and see whether or not this thing really has legs. Can we do anything with it?

Now they had done a couple of other locations as well and all of us went, yeah, yeah. Let’s go. Let’s do it. And in November 2016 was our first sales enablement society annual meeting. I’ll call it that. Scott was working at Anderson. They had a conference for a few days and in the afternoon of the last day, he’d invited a number of folks. It ended up being about a hundred of us, to come down to Palm, not Palm Springs, it’s in Florida, whatever that is to come and meet at the Anderson conference for four hours. That was the very first one. There were a hundred of us when they asked how many had sales enablement it as a title, there were very few, but what we did is, we looked around the room and went, “We’re not alone. There’s other folks.”

And so from that time, we then went into the full, you know it’s all voluntary, but we went into the things saying, we need to create this group. We need to make this a formal group and that’s where the Sales Enablement Society came from. And it has order directors and they’ve changed over the years. It has a board of advisors of which I’m one. We are now over 10,000 strong, globally, all over the world.

And it is, if you do sales enablement, if you do any type of customer facing, whether it’s sales enablement or customer training or any of those kinds of things channel, get on this group. It’s easy to join. You go to sesociety.org and join. And there you are because you now have access to over 10,000 people who are doing exactly the same thing that you are. And that is what makes all the difference. That’s why it’s so important. Plus there’s no hidden agenda. There’s no vendor underneath it. Some of the other teams are being, you know are supported by vendors. It’s not saying that’s a bad thing, but what it means is from a sales enablement society, there is, you’re not being pushed in one direction or another. It’s people are very open because it’s just what we do. It’s our profession.

AW:

Well, and I think a couple of weeks ago you had your annual conference, the Sales Enablement Experience, and it’s obvious how much you are loved and respected. Your intro said, “We love seeing Sheevaun Thatcher keynote, the Sales Enablement Societies, SES experience, virtual conference. Sheevaun and her team continue to lead the way, reinvent and re-imagining sales enablement and showing us where our industry is going. Be prepared to be inspired and wowed.” And so I thought that was a great intro and I’d love for you, give us a few of your key takeaways from your talk called The Sales Enablement to Corporate Enablement Path. What were you talking about?

ST:

Yeah. So what I’m talking about is, like you and I have been talking about sales enablement, which is a really critical part of what most people that are going to be on your podcast are looking for. Three years ago, at the same sales enablement conference in 2018, I was on stage with the rest of the board of advisors and we were asked from the audience, predict what it’s going to be like in three years. And my prediction was we’re going to break the barriers of sales enablement. It’s not going to become sales, it’s going to be enablement, right? Because these four things I talked about at the beginning apply to everybody in the company, every single one of them. The only difference is how you are measured on your performance. Is it revenue or is it number of classes delivered or is it CSAT or is it NPS or is it employee satisfaction, whatever it is, right?

Is it number of line of code that you write? Your performance is measured differently, but those four things, do you understand the go to market? Is everything on target? Can you get it easily and can you provide feedback? That fits everybody in the company? So I created a proposal three years ago that was finally accepted at the end of last year, end of 2020 and I now run the digital learning and enablement team, which is all learning and enablement for RingCentral globally. So that means all the developers. My team trains, the developers, we have customer training falls under me, partner training falls under me, partner enablement, sales training, sales enablement.

I’ve got a curriculum design team because we didn’t have anything like that at RingCentral beforehand. I’ve got a digital design team, which is e-learning and production and turning everything into these really classy, looking really fun types of content that’s being delivered. I know I’m missing, I’ve got product people. I’ve got all of the corporate onboarding, right? So anybody coming into RingCentral regardless to whether sales or otherwise goes through a program developed by my team. And so we’ve just changed the world. We’ve changed the way we approach it. And now my team at RingCentral knows more about what’s going on with the company than any other team, because we’re plugged into all of it. And so it is the reduction of duplication. It’s the optimization. It’s the scale. It’s the sharing of that information and collaboration and cooperation. That’s what we do and that’s what we brought to the table. We started in January, we’re now 10 months in, and I would say it’s been wildly successful.

AW:

So who doesn’t work for you? That feels like that’s everybody.

ST:

What we don’t do, we don’t do the traditional HR type of training, so compliance training.

AW:

Okay.

ST:

And we don’t do leadership training when it comes to leadership skills, right? When it comes to being a manager of sales we do that, but we don’t do that traditional what you consider to be leadership training. How to have hard conversations, right. Things like that. That’s HR. But other than that, yeah. We have it all. It all falls under this arm, this umbrella.

AW:

Our last question, I could not be more excited to ask anyone other than you, especially now I’m watching, how your brain is thinking. Our final question from Hello to Yes is always, what has you stumped today and who, what, or where are you going to go to for answers?

ST:

So what has me stumped today more than anything else is how do you measure and report back, right? Understanding what the performance measurements are, are good, but how does that apply to the effectiveness and the forward movement of the company, right? We have our go to market strategies. We have all of that. How does the work that my team does affect that, and how does it help move it forward? And how can I show that that is what’s happening, right? I’m asking for big money in our AOP budget, right? How do I back it up? How do I justify it? And so I’ve got a lot of work going on there.

Right now we just finished a dashboard that has every single product, our project, that my team has worked on. They’re all on this dashboard now. So I can by group, I can see who’s doing well, who’s not, where do we have problems, where might there, right? For the first time ever, I’ve got a view on what’s going on. We have over 300 active programs right now. It’s crazy when you think about it, but having this dashboard now, as the leader of this team I can dig in on areas that I think there might be a problem.

And then in Q4, it’s going to be all about what are the KPIs? I know this is a struggle. A lot of enablement people have because it seems so nebulous, right? You’re doing this thing. How do you measure whether or not you’re really having an impact? Because as they said we don’t do certification is a lot of time so it’s not so many people went through the course and burned down reports. We don’t do a lot of that, but what can we do and what can we measure that we can then use that’s going to be, not only is it going to effectively show what it is that we work on, but again it’s going to be in the language of the people that are looking at the reports.

It’s going to be the language of the executive team, right? Not the language of enablement or learning and enablement. It’s got to be in their language. So that’s really, that’s my current struggle and getting there. We’re getting there. I’ve got a number of folks. Every single one of my groups has somebody that’s a DRI to help try to figure this out, right?

The one thing I learned, I guess this is the other thing about right what I would’ve told my 20 year old self is don’t be a know it all, be a learn it all, right? Because my leaders know more about what they’re doing and their particular niche and their skillset than I do. My job is to make sure I get stuff out of their way. My job is to make sure that I don’t use a flashlight just to focus on one thing, but that I open the doors and use all of these other lights to make sure that everybody sees it, right? Bring the stuff out of the darkness. That’s really what my job is and to get crap out of the way. Get their job done. So that’s really what I do.

AW:

That is phenomenal and I want to thank you so much and hope you’ll come back because I have no doubt you are going to solve for those issues, challenges right now and have you stumped. And I think all of us want to know we’re asking the same questions. How do you show value? Where can our listeners follow you?

ST:

You can follow me on LinkedIn. To access you need to use my email. I’ve got it locked down as you can imagine, a lot of vendors want to talk to me and no doubt, there’ll be some on here. Doesn’t matter. It’s sheevaun@gmail.com is the email you need to be able to connect with me on LinkedIn. It’s not my work email. It’s my personal so you can see me there. That’s probably the best method of communication at this point. I do a lot of mentoring. I do a lot of just answering questions, things like that, because frankly from my point of view, if you’re actively looking at managing your career, not necessarily what you do for a company, but you as a person and you want to get better and you want to, right, then I will I’ll speak with folks about that.

AW:

That’s awesome. On behalf of From Hello to Yes, Sheevaun you have been a real joy. Thank you so much for joining us today.

ST:

Well, thank you. It’s been a delight.

AW:

So many great insights from Sheevaun, and I appreciated the simplicity of her know your audience approach when she shares metrics with management and her key perspective shift to salespeople to not sell your prospects, but to help them buy. And finally, I really respected her approach to leading her team. Saying it was her job to make sure that she doesn’t use a flashlight to just focus on one thing, but that she opens the doors and uses all of these other lights to make sure that everybody sees what is going on. Bringing the stuff our of the darkness. She said her job is to get crap out of the way so her team can get their job done. That is drop the mic management. So if you’re working with sales and have to help them sell, you’re welcome. Don’t forget, all the resources mentioned today can be found in our show notes on the salesamp.com podcast, along with other episodes. So that’s a wrap. Remember in this fast-paced world of marketing and sales, we are better together. Thanks for joining us today on From Hello to Yes. Hope you’ll join us again soon. Bye for now.

Show More +

Subscribe to Our Podcast

Join us as we talk successes, failures, and where top sales and marketing professionals see the industry going next.

Listen Now